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--- The Passion Of The Christ (http://www.danielamos.com/wbb2/thread.php?threadid=4996)
Posted by baxter on 03-15-2004 at21:20:
Somebody pick up that dear, little thing and give it a hug.
Posted by PuP on 03-15-2004 at22:09:
| quote: |
Originally posted by Jevon the Tall
Mark, that is the funniest thing I've seen in ages. As I will spend this evening at a bible study, where the host denomination is very evangelical, and pretty much think Catholics, and their ilk are eeeeeeevil.
Except, when it comes to Lord of the Rings "Tolkien was a Christian you know? " and Mel "Mel is a Christian you know?" and music "Rich Mullins was a Christian you know?"
Sadly as a Christian (trying, failing, trying, failing, trying ... ) who likes the Anglican church they don't know what to do.
But in general what evolved into the Catholic church is viewed as evil and icky. Which is too bad. You can almost hear the thud of the baby hitting the ground as it gets thrown out with the bath water. |
Perhaps Catholics are like CCM. They're only Catholic if you don't like 'em.
Mark? No way he's Catholic.
Posted by joey on 03-15-2004 at22:21:
i still haven't seen it....
might on friday...
Posted by dorfsmith on 03-15-2004 at22:41:
You all missed my point. Everyone was saying he was so cool for funding the movie with his own money. I'm just saying that he made more than that back. I'm also saying that if it's purpose is to get people saved and you have the money to do it then why not offer it for free.
Also, I don't think Christian music is anything more than a money making industry. If people get saved by it then fine but I don't think it should be marketed as a way to get people saved. Those the Tuxedo Clad Megastar type artists (hate to call them artists) who say they are all ministry are actually all full of crap.
Sediment is NOT ministry. It's art and I sell it for cost (a little over so I can give copies away to family). Many of the people on Sediment are not even Christians.
I don't think a Bible should be sold for more than cost. I think the people who sell it for more are jerks.
If you guys want to defend whoring Jesus than so be it but I won't take part.
Posted by FaintScentsOfSewage on 03-15-2004 at23:10:
There's not a theatre that would show it without taking in any money, unless maybe that were also to be subsidized by him. It's not like they could use it as a loss leader.
"Come for The Passion, stay for Starsky & Hutch!"
Of course, if you were to be talking about something like
this I would wholeheartedly agree.
And don't get me started on my list of churches advertising "The Passion Studies" that i'll make sure I never attend.
Posted by Jevon the Tall on 03-15-2004 at23:52:
"whores for Jesus get a tax break"
Posted by audiori on 03-15-2004 at23:59:
Christian music sometimes is more like an anti-money making industry.
Some Christian musicians would actually make more money doing
something else but they stick with this for the message.
Rich Mullins as someone mentioned above, his really was a ministry
he took a vow of poverty after following St Francis. He would give
most of his tour money to Compassion. He also lived on an indian
reservation teaching music to children.
The industry of Christian music is there as a money making industry,
but a lot of artist are not in it for the money. If they were, they would be
crazy because some actually lose a lot doing this work.
And as someone who accepted Christ only after hearing some Christian
music in the 80's I think it is something more than just a commercial
entity. It does reach a certain part of the population, in some cases
some people need to hear the message in this format to 'get it.'
There are those that are in it for the money, but not all. It's
like preachers, there are good ones doing it for the right reasons
and there are the televangelists types in it for the money.
Posted by Mark on 03-16-2004 at07:50:
Dorf,
I look at the Mel/Passion thing differently. Mel spent $25 million of his own money, because no one in the movie industry wanted to be part of Mel's religious movie. Personally, I hope The Passion makes $1 billion worldwide. I say this for two reasons: 1. To send a message to the movie industry that there is a demand for clean, wholesome, and even religious movies. (OK, don't tell me it wasn't clean because Jesus was covered with blood.) 2. I would like to see Mel rewarded for having the guts to do this movie with his own money.
Posted by baxter on 03-16-2004 at09:29:
Amen
Posted by carl on 03-16-2004 at10:53:
| quote: |
Originally posted by dorfsmith
Thank you carl. As usual your post calmes me down
. |
Yep. Just think of me as your personal human quaalude.
| quote: |
| The whoring of Jesus was a bit over the top but it seems some of you don't get my philosophy at all. |
Yo Dorf-Dude, think about what board y'r on and the things we commisserate about as a result. How much wouldn't we get?
| quote: |
| Perhaps I misunderstood the way this movie was being marketed. Maybe I thought the church hype was the same hype Mel was using. I did not see Mel pushing the movie so I don't know what spin he put on it. The way I understood it was that many people thought this movie would save the world. It was like charging admission to see the actual crucifixion of Christ. In that context, it would be sickening. By what my friends and family (not anyone here) was saying, it seemed that Mel Gibson had almost acheived sainthood by simply funding the movie himself. Then I see how much it made and I'm like Saint Mel my burro. |
That's fair. Although, as you say, I don't think it was so much a Mel thing as it was a counter-Mel thing that became a counter-counter-Mel thing by an well-intentioned but overenthusiastic evangelical crowd that.... you get the idea. Hype is like that. All press is good press, right?
That "It was like charging admission to see the actual crucifixion of Christ," comment, though, strikes a pretty hard nerve. In a good way, but still.... we have to be careful....
Posted by dorfsmith on 03-16-2004 at11:09:
| quote: |
Originally posted by audiori
Christian music sometimes is more like an anti-money making industry.
Some Christian musicians would actually make more money doing
something else but they stick with this for the message.
Rich Mullins as someone mentioned above, his really was a ministry
he took a vow of poverty after following St Francis. He would give
most of his tour money to Compassion. He also lived on an indian
reservation teaching music to children.
The industry of Christian music is there as a money making industry,
but a lot of artist are not in it for the money. If they were, they would be
crazy because some actually lose a lot doing this work.
And as someone who accepted Christ only after hearing some Christian
music in the 80's I think it is something more than just a commercial
entity. It does reach a certain part of the population, in some cases
some people need to hear the message in this format to 'get it.'
There are those that are in it for the money, but not all. It's
like preachers, there are good ones doing it for the right reasons
and there are the televangelists types in it for the money. |
Every new local punk band of Christian kids that I know says someday we'll be on MTV. They call singing songs about girls ministry just because they go to church.
the Tuxedo Clad Megastar calls his music ministry and charges $100.00 a ticket to see his show. Why not call it what it really is: entertainment for retards.
Now before you get all mad and say I missed your point I will address the Rich Mullins, DA, starving artist issue. Rich mullins did stick to music for the message. I won't deney that. He had a ministry (same as mr. cricket) and he got paid some for it. I don't think he ever claimed to be saving the world though. He knew God could work through his music and he simply left it up to God. I'm sure he knew that is was not his music that was saving people...obviously God was.
DA is a starving band. No doubt about it but I don't think they would call themselves a ministry. They are an artistic band and people see God in their music the same way people see God in our lives. My life can minister to people but I'm not going to go around saying that I'm a ministry. To call yourself or your band or your organization a ministry is pretty presumptuous isn't it??? That's when you allow spiritual pride to set in and start taking credit for God. As Christians, all of our art (our lives for that matter) will reflect God to people. Sometimes it may be hard for everyone to see but Christians will reflect God. On a side note, I've noticed that that happens more often when I am not aware that I am being watched. When I used to pray in church or do a worship song, ministry was happening but not near the extent as the stuff God did through me that I never even tried to do.
God is amazing in what he uses to bring us to him. Many secular "evil" bands have had words that hit me harder than any Christian band ever has. Take Kansas--Dust In The Wind. The band was not Christian at the time but every time I hear the song I am drawn to God as I am reminded of my frailty. Would you consider Metalica a ministry??? Certainly not, but God has used them to minister to me.
Instead of creating our own "ministry" and calling people "great ministers" we should take a step back and let the ministry of jesus reflect through our everyday lives.
Posted by JR88 on 03-16-2004 at11:19:
| quote: |
Originally posted by dorfsmith
Instead of creating our own "ministry" and calling people "great ministers" we should take a step back and let the ministry of jesus reflect through our everyday lives. |
In doing that we effectivley create a ministry....
here's the definition
min·is·try ( P ) Pronunciation Key (mn-str)
n. pl. min·is·tries
[I]The act of serving; ministration.
One that serves as a means; an instrumentality. [/I]
So in reality if we are serving Christ we are all involved in ministry right.?
Posted by dorfsmith on 03-16-2004 at11:23:
| quote: |
Originally posted by Driver8
| quote: |
Originally posted by dorfsmith
Instead of creating our own "ministry" and calling people "great ministers" we should take a step back and let the ministry of jesus reflect through our everyday lives. |
In doing that we effectivley create a ministry....
here's the definition
min·is·try ( P ) Pronunciation Key (mn-str)
n. pl. min·is·tries
[I]The act of serving; ministration.
One that serves as a means; an instrumentality. [/I]
So in reality if we are serving Christ we are all involved in ministry right.? |
Yes we are...just not the way many people think of it. Spiritual pride builds a wall around the true meaning of ministry.
Posted by carl on 03-16-2004 at11:24:
Yo Dorf, for my own part, I agree with the majority of what you say, but I would just add not to get so hung-up on the M-word. When people use it to validate themselves, yeah, it's wrong. But most of the time -- in a land where the cameras aren't rolling (which is most places -- we're just led to believe otherwise), God uses the fact that we're willing to BE used, and.... well.... ministry happens, as they say.
It's only presumptuous when God had nothing to do with it. When He does, well, then, gimme another word for it if you need to but I'm OK with using that word at that point....
I guess we have varying perspectives on the proportion to which this kind of stuff goes on; otherwise you got me, and baby I got you....
Posted by dorfsmith on 03-16-2004 at11:31:
fair enough
Posted by JR88 on 03-16-2004 at11:31:
As far as making money from ministry
1 Corinthinas 9: 7-14
7Who serves as a soldier at his own expense? Who plants a vineyard and does not eat of its grapes? Who tends a flock and does not drink of the milk? 8Do I say this merely from a human point of view? Doesn't the Law say the same thing? 9For it is written in the Law of Moses: "Do not muzzle an ox while it is treading out the grain."[2] Is it about oxen that God is concerned? 10Surely he says this for us, doesn't he? Yes, this was written for us, because when the plowman plows and the thresher threshes, they ought to do so in the hope of sharing in the harvest. 11If we have sown spiritual seed among you, is it too much if we reap a material harvest from you? 12If others have this right of support from you, shouldn't we have it all the more?
13But we did not use this right. On the contrary, we put up with anything rather than hinder the gospel of Christ. Don't you know that those who work in the temple get their food from the temple, and those who serve at the altar share in what is offered on the altar?
14In the same way, the Lord has commanded that those who preach the gospel should receive their living from the gospel.
Now I'm not condoning Carman's charging to get on his website or Robert Tiltons money grabbing hands....I'm just saying if a preachers pulling in $60,000 a year and paying his taxes and tithes....that's ok by me and God. Now if he's pulling in millions a year then he'll have to answer to someone much bigger than me.
Oh and by the way dorf.......I'm not mad at you bro.
Like carl said "you got me, and baby I got you.... "
Posted by dorfsmith on 03-16-2004 at11:36:
I agree with what you're saying driver. I don't have a problem with making a living feeding people or being a pastor. I don't have a problem with being rich for the most part. My big problem is with the merchandising of Jesus and using his name to make money. What does Jesus have in common with Disney??? Put their names on a crappy piece of marchandise and you can sell it for a hundred times what it's worth
Posted by JR88 on 03-16-2004 at11:40:
| quote: |
Originally posted by dorfsmith
I agree with what you're saying driver. I don't have a problem with making a living feeding people or being a pastor. I don't have a problem with being rich for the most part. My big problem is with the merchandising of Jesus and using his name to make money. What does Jesus have in common with Disney??? Put their names on a crappy piece of marchandise and you can sell it for a hundred times what it's worth
|
I see your point
)
But also see that this is the age we live in, no amount of distaste for the commercialization of it all will change that. After saying that also know that as you say God has ministered to you through Metallica maybe we shouldn't be too quick to judge Christian commercialization, cause He could very well use it as well.
just a thought
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