 Thread: Secret Scripts & 3D Glasses |
voxrob
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One band in the MM! stable that seemed to have some of the same loopy sensibilities -- I'm not sure how much they were really influenced by DA -- was Aslan. They had one memorable evolution-related song and they had other songs that took a wry look at the world around them rather than simply just evangelizing. You can see what's left of that band here:
http://members.aol.com/_ht_a/crparavel/
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| Thread: producing Daniel Amos |
voxrob
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Outside producer -- oh, one of the obvious ones was missed:
Brian Wilson
and then.. to reciprocate, Terry would produce a Brian Wilson album. I like that plan.
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| Thread: New DA? |
voxrob
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Alot of these ideas sound kind of tricky and I'm not sure I understand these single track rewards for pre-orders and what-not and secret web access threads with random tracks scattered throughout. Having old stuff hidden on the website like Waldo isn't exactly what I would think would be the sharpest idea.
There's two ways this could be done where it is more of a straightforward deal based on a couple of assumptions. There is some concert material around of varying degrees of quality. Especially for the poorer quality records, put the concert on a CD with the minimum of messing with it, put it into a simple, tasteful sleeve and put it out as "Audiori's Picks" or whatever. Sell it for 12 bucks or whatever. This is not a preorder, but a relatively cheap, easy way to put out a release fans may want that will turn a profit. Even if you use a track from that concert on a future release, there is a special pleasure of having the entire concert it came from. Heck, I'll be a sweetheart. I have a recording from a concert in 1993 that isn't even listed on your timeline. It's not terrific and the venue had poor acoustics, but it's a snapshot of history. Of course if DA hadn't had a tape rolling at that concert, shame on them -- they easily could have one, maybe Tom knows.
Second... and this depends on how long it takes to record the album... do what was done for John Wayne and Little Big ... halfway through the recording, capture some rough mixes/demos and release that ... preferably as a straight-up sale. You know something? I actually prefer a couple of the Ten-Gallon Hat cuts over the finished product. Selling a rough mix version only works well if the album isn't cut and mixed very quickly (in which case there are fewer differences). I understand that there are quality control things involved so maybe this particular item needs to be a pre-order. But if that's the case, then make it understood that the pre-order means getting 2 cds, rather than a wink and a nod and saying we're giving this special one as a reward for pre-ordering. If pre-orders are buying 2 cds (the demo/rough first, then the finished), then charge more than $15.
If you really do want to do some sort of MP3 download deal, isn't it possible to set up a section of the site with some songs from a particular era, say, and just say "if you want access, it'll cost $8" or whatever. It's not a preorder. It's just what it is -- the customer is getting access to that download area. It would be possible to have several different ones up at the same time -- maybe people aren't interested in "DAs Comedic Moments". And it would be nice if they were thematically linked, not a cassette dub from 1974, a HD outtake, a cut from 1987 and another from 1994.
Similar to the last idea, there had been some interesting radio-oriented CDs that came out: Motorcycle Tracks, the one from Little Red Riding Hood. Those included some really good outtakes ... I really liked the run-through of "Rocky Mountain Mines" and the backing tracks from Motor Cycle. I don't think anything like that has been done in quite some time. Those were both worthwhile releases.
The biggest advantage of these ideas is there isn't the impatience and acrimony of pre-orders and "hey, I paid 2 years ago and you guys are working on putting out HD and DFBB before this new one", blah blah. You order something, you get it. Yeah, maybe do the pre-orders, but it will be very close to the ship date and less confusion will result.
Best wishes in any case.
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| Thread: Ultimate Horrendous Disc Update? |
voxrob
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So he has more material? Is it better or worse than what he put on the last CD? If it's worse, then you can ask yourselves, "is it really worthwhile?"
If his offer is rejected, he can release another CD...
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| Thread: Ultimate Horrendous Disc Update? |
voxrob
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"And it also angered Daniel Amos' hard core fans" ... "Norman was also accused by the DA fans of being too defensive in his liner notes"
These fans sound like a bunch of whining knuckleheads. I guess we just complain alot. On the other hand, there is so much about this that is simply odd. For those who have it -- look at what it says why they have no other photos than the cover shots. They would be better off saying nothing.
Although, there is a difference between complaint and evaluation. If a reissue of a work comes out, it will be compared to it's predecessors. What has first struck me is that the sound seems compressed. A couple of tracks sound basically the same, but there are differences that I'm still not sure about in others.
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| Thread: Ultimate Horrendous Disc Update? |
voxrob
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>>" I am listening to HD for the first time and I'm still not sure about it. I loved Shotgun Angel, and was told I would like HD, but not sure yet."
Yeah, there was alot of that back in the day.
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| Thread: Ultimate Horrendous Disc Update? |
voxrob
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When I think about it, this is kind of a colossal mistake on his part. He could have advertised this as alternate mixes, rather than the hype he used, and I think there would be significant interest on it's own merits. I was not crazy about purchasing this -- essentially a duplicate of what I got before + 5 -- but if it is alternate takes and what-not, that changes things. You know the market for this are the DA fans, so why not advertise something that would interest them??
But some of his releases have been kind of strange. I remember "The Sky is Falling" has mostly what was on the LP except one cut was exchanged for a live version (if my memory is correct). What's up with that?
I don't know if he deliberately cultivates an aura of mystery and mercurial behavior, but alot of times it just seems head-shakingly strange.
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| Thread: Ultimate Horrendous Disc Update? |
voxrob
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>>"Okay, I got the new Larry version of HD in the mail today. After my first listen, here's my thoughts:..."
What you have posted is very much appreciated. What is really too bad is that this is the kind of thing I want liner notes for -- after all look at the Anthology series of the Beatles where Lewisohn gives us some details of this take/variation/mix. Of course, Larry may not be the best person to describe what it is we're hearing.
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| Thread: Ultimate Horrendous Disc Update? |
voxrob
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I haven't heard the CD, but it seems there is a similarity between this and "Let It Be...Naked" by the Beatles. That CD seemed to try to be similar to the original, but I believe used all different versions of songs than those used on the original album. Is that what this is?
Which brings up another question concerning what was done at Solid Rock -- was there alot of messing around and remixing of the tracks before it was finally released? Were they experimenting with different instruments, takes, etc. at that point? The Beatles release could be done because the band had done umpteen versions of the songs, but my understanding is that alot of Horrendous Disc was basically done by the time they left Maranatha.
Is there any chance that a DA veteran from those days can comment about these versions?
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| Thread: earthquake in the bay area... |
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It wasn't too scary, but it did last a long time, and was certainly the strongest I've felt since Loma Prieta.
I will tell you -- it would have made much more of an impact if the power had gone out -- because it was after dark already and _that_ would have made it memorable.
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| Thread: Terry at Church |
voxrob
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No, sorry. I never heard such a thing even when I went to churches that had "worship teams".
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| Thread: Ultimate Horrendous Disc Update? |
voxrob
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>>"excluding this case..why are we all so morbidly weird about the subject of dying?"
What's so funny about it? The reference to "kicking the bucket" seemed to have an inference: "it might be convenient if he died then there would be someone else to negotiate with" -- essentially, wishing, or, at least not really caring a whole lot if he lived or died. I'm sure he doesn't feel like that, I'm sure his family doesn't feel like that. It certainly shouldn't be joked about.
Death is serious stuff -- one definitely gets that impression when one attends a funeral -- even when they are Christians. We all desperately need more time here to repent and learn to be Christ-like. Death is, ideally, supposed to be a sobering subject such that we start thinking about what is really important in life -- have you ever thought about that -- suddenly dying and realizing that all of the things we care about right now will become unimportant -- instantly.
I realize there is a temptation to think, "well, if i die then i'll instantly be with Jesus!". Well, I think alot of the evangelical theories about our existence after death may not be so accurate and the events in the hereafter might be a little more complicated.
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| Thread: DA Sessionography |
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>>"in situations with a "major" band, like the beatles, remember there are many many people there....assistants, engineers, producer and who knows who else. it much easier to see them documenting everytake in that situation unlike da's where every moment counts."
If you've read Geoff Emerick's book, you will know another reason. EMI in the early 60s was a very stodgy, persnickety place. The engineers were still wearing white lab coats. Yes, they wrote everything down -- that was just the culture. It was probably a hassle but proved useful for docmenting what happened.
I recently ran across the title of a book of Dylan sessions. I wonder what that is like and what they were able to glean.
However, I should mention, that in Lewisohn's book, it is not simply regurgitating the notes and logs. Many of the session tapes were still around -- he could hear take 1, break down -- take two, mistake in the outro, take 3... etc. and could write it down. Final mixes might have been a combination of two or more takes -- which was written down and a person might even be able to hear. Now, in the case of DA, it's possible some of that stuff is around, but I doubt it's much.
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| Thread: DA Sessionography |
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I thought about this a long time ago. The advantage the Beatles had was that they worked for one label at, primarily, one studio. This is not even close to the case with DA. If you could track down the studios from the 70s until now, they might have the information in written form, possibly, who knows. I imagine some studios do not exist anymore or have changed names/owners. I remember trying to track down that studio used by DA when they were with MM! ("White-something" as I recall), but didn't find anything. That says nothing about the relatively private studios that are frequently used now.
One other contrast with the Beatles project was that Lewisohn was able to listen to the tapes and document what he heard. I have hoped that something like that exists still, some of which might appear on the deluxe CDs being worked on (or even on very specialized releases: "Shotgun Angel Sessions"), but what exists might be very haphazard. Unless someone was a real packrat it's difficult to imagine that there are hours and hours of session tapes from even one album, let alone most/all.
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| Thread: Ultimate Horrendous Disc Update? |
voxrob
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>>"Add to that the fact that Tom and Eve just had a baby.. we don't want to push Tom too much on the artwork and packaging at that time. I'm sure they'll need a little time to "adjust.""
...Hmmm, well that will be in about 18 years.
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| Thread: Ultimate Horrendous Disc Update? |
voxrob
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... I'm not older, but not by much. I've seen DA about 11 or 12 times but it was very episodic -- most of those were in two separate series of concerts in Hawaii in 1977 and then again in 1980 (I went to all of the available shows), but, on the other hand, the last time was one of their last concerts -- in 1993 I think.
Actually, that show in Orange or Tustin would not have been the last one because they were going to play at some Superfest a week or two later, but they ended up not playing.
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| Thread: Ultimate Horrendous Disc Update? |
voxrob
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>>"Are you referring to Fairy Tale? I think the earliest tape we have of HD (complete with the Maranatha! ) included Fairy Tale. "
That was it? I didn't even know that much. The Shirley CD notes mentioned that that song had been dropped, but I did not necessarily correlate that to the 10-song album that had been rumored. It was unclear when "Fairy Tale" had been dropped along the way -- it's always been a very unclear chronology how much more work had been done on the album after the move to Solid Rock -- that's why the final version from MM! would be very interesting to hear (and remarkable how progressive that label was).
Another poster mentioned the chronology of the recordings. I had noticed this anomaly a long time ago as well -- "Hound of Heaven" was reportedly one of the last songs added/recorded, yet, not long after Shotgun Angel, they were playing that song in concerts and it sounded very much like it does on the released LP -- it's hard to believe it was an afterthought or they were hoping to include something better. NOTE: The concerts were around September after SA was released and there were only a few HD songs being played at that point.
Isn't it funny that one of the things that makes HD such an interesting album to discuss is directly because of it's long awaited release? It was so painful at the time but it provides so much opportunity for harmless speculation in the present.
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| Thread: Ultimate Horrendous Disc Update? |
voxrob
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I even asked them about it when they came and played some concerts on Kauai.
In the release notes/booklet/whatever (of which, there should be something), instead of rehashing the controversy, it would be nice to hear what some of the band members 1) thought they were going to try to put together, especially in the wake of the "visionary" Shotgun Angel and 2) were they concerned that, in 1978, this music really was going to push the outside of the envelope in ccm? I mean, in those days, how much of this music could/would they be performing in churches, which was still a very common venue? They can also talk about the original song order. And it might be nice to hear from some long lost DA members -- Mark, Alex?
A couple of questions about the release:
- This release (and there are at least 2 discs) will include the HD album itself? How many discs, anyway?
- Is this release going to include the numerous songs recorded between HD and Alarma? Or is that 2-year period going to be covered elsewhere (there are about 30 songs from that time period, right?).
- Are there any copies of any of the rough mixes? I talked to a DJ years ago who had a tape (I think he got it from one of the guys in the band) of a rough mix of the album and he thought the rough mix was great. He even thought it was stronger in places than the released version -- alot of energy, especially a song that was not included on the released version.
- And finally, can we clear up the tenth-song thing? It was mentioned by the DJ I talked to (he said it directly followed, without a break, one of the songs on the LP -- and I think I can figure out which one it is). It was mentioned in the review of HD in CCM (I think John Styll wrote the review and he wasn't sure which version was going to be released). Including, if anyone can remember, why that song was dropped.
- Is Larry keeping some tracks for a Solid Rock release?
Thank you.
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| Thread: Horrendous Disc Re-release |
voxrob
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It's good that things are going well, but, of all the projects, even though I look forward to it, it's the one I am not banking on. I mean, Larry has some very different priorities so I understand that Horrendous Disc is not at the top of his to-do list.
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| Thread: Buddy Killen is dead |
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>>"do they have better business sense then he did?"
Well, there's a couple of different ways of looking at this. Perhaps he did have good business sense -- I mean, it was well known that DFBB sold very poorly (it was mentioned in CMM, for crying out loud) -- something like 2000 copies. Heck, I bought the LP and the CD (when it came out a bit later) -- so that accounts for two. A rerelease of a 20-year old CD might _not_ be a good business move from KMG's perspective.
However, he did take a chance on purchasing Frontline -- maybe he saw something there that made his colleagues think "what is he thinking?". I don't know if he lost money on that deal in the end or not. He probably wasn't a DA fan, which made him look at rereleases purely on cost vs reward. Yeah, he probably heard from DA fans, but every artist he published has fans and they all pull for their favorites.
The guy did what he thought was good for his company and, hopefully, his successors will do the same.
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