 Thread: Alarma! cd quality control... |
voxrob
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Not simply for this particular case, but I would like to understand a little more about such a problem -- as has been said, if the media looks to be in solid condition (both sides of the disc), with no markings, no scrapes, etc., this simply should not be happening -- there's no physical reason for it. How many different players did you try? I know that where discs are played can make a difference -- some CD players in computers can be a little hard on the disc. I've never heard of the "stronger" lasers in DVD players but it's possible I suppose (now -- DVDs -- that is one medium which really is very very fragile).
It's not just the DA CDs that might be difficult to replace (heh, but I still have the LPs). This kind of problem could be a bit frightening.
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| Thread: another friday! |
voxrob
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The only solid request I remember is the request for video, not really audio. Are you looking for concert audio that hasn't made the rounds? If you're looking for audio as well, post a reqest in the Upcoming Releases section and outline what you have in mind and a few of the things you have already (so people get a sense of what is available already).
If you are looking for audio tapes of concerts, the thing is, I kind of assume that the band is making a soundboard recording anyway -- when DA played in Tustin (I think) around 1993, I just kind of figured they were doing that, as well as on the Lost Dog gigs. If the band has soundboard recordings, audience tapes wouldn't be so great (probably).
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| Thread: Loose Ends |
voxrob
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>>"I cant think of another driven market that is trying to influence people the way that Christian Music supposed to be."
And I think this was a problem with the ccm of the 70s, and perhaps even now... it was trying to serve two masters -- to be pop/rock music and also to communcate a message. Because of the communication issue, Christian "rock" always sounded different -- because the lyrics needed to be understood and comprehensible. It was always tamer (and some might say, "lamer").
The protest folk music in the early 60s had the same twin goals -- try to be popular (but only to a certain point) and also to communicate a message. I'm not sure how many people they converted -- I suppose most people who listened to that music alot already agreed with those points of view. But look what happened to someone like Bob Dylan -- he needed to branch out, become more creative, and the protest folk music was simply too confining. And all hell broke out when he plugged in that guitar because he wanted to be an artist.
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| Thread: Daniel Amos / DA CDs on eBay!!! |
voxrob
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Does this mean you will be selling Steely Dan items when you get to "d"?
Yeah, in Christian bookstores long ago, I would routinely check the record stacks (yeah, that long ago) under "D" and under "A" -- sometimes you never knew if the person stocking the records knew better. Of course, in Rob Jones' case, selling them under the "A"s benefits the buyers now rather than later.
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| Thread: Avocado Club |
voxrob
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"Thats what Mike wanted to do with the 77s Christmas CD,
he just wanted to sel it. I don't think he was keen on the idea
that was originally promised; that those songs would not be
offered again in any other way. I remember a quote of his
to the effect of "you mean they are doomed to cardboard hell?"
I think Mike liked the songs enough he wanted to sometime
present them in a better format."
I don't blame him. At first, a club like this seems really exclusive -- "ooh, once we get our club CD, no one will ever get this again". I'm not sure this is a good idea for anybody. Anyone who cares enough to join a club like this will spend a few bucks on a special little EP release when they come out every so often (rather than making it simply for "members only"). I'm not sure how more buyers are generated with a club. The only upswing from the fans perspective, I think, is that once in awhile a surprise disc ends up in the mailbox (sort of like when I get a shipment from my wine club).
From the artists perspective, what would they put on a disc like this? If the stuff is really good, why not make it more widely available? I'm just not sure where the big advantage is -- especially since, once the club is established, the artist "owes" the fans a couple of discs each year.
The Audioris are in the worst situation here -- they are running the store, as it were, but have zero power in providing services. Perhaps after the experiences with 2 clubs that maybe the idea needs to just go away unless the person running the program can be sure that
1) the fans will be satisfied with what they get for what they spend,
2) the artist will not feel hostage to a particular schedule of releases (aside from their real releases for real money) -- and feel a bit resentful as a result
3) the people running the program don't get blamed by the fans for not providing what the fans paid for and get blamed by the artist for causing a ruckus amongst the fan-base.
I don't know what's been happening in 77-land, but there have been several different types of programs tried for Terry/DA releases, and it seems like a standard sale model -- with no tricks or promises of exclusivity -- works the best. Granted, folks aren't thrilled about the delay of Jubal and the MBD DVD, but we knew that these were not on a schedule (no one made promises, most know what's happened in the past). That's fine -- I have no problem with this. It's the other types of projects that just kind of didn't seem like they worked well. Why cause more frustration for everyone?
Frankly, at some point, I would like to see Terry, DA, whoever, just put the CD together and pop it out there if it doesn't require some long, drawn-out fan-input. Maybe, with the historical recording after Jubal, just don't say anything, just get it done, surprise everybody. It will be a nice change from the elephantine gestation periods that seem to precede each release.
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| Thread: So, eh, let's say Camarillo asked you what you'd like to see from The Eddies |
voxrob
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It's like standing up at a wedding and trying to make a "funny" toast to the bride and groom -- you better know you're really funny, because if it flops it really flops.
The Miracle Faith Telethon had some funny bits which were pretty good. However, it was the music that had me coming back to it -- the DEDT thing was there kind of to glue it all together into some wierd whole. After all, I can't imagine any "comedy" album that can be as audibly durable as a music album. Sometimes I would listen to the DEDT schpiel, sometimes not, but the tremendous variety of the album had me coming back. And there were varied, interesting things on it -- remixes, some older stuff that wasn't on CD yet, some newly recorded live cuts. Definitely a good release.
Yeah, I hope that the next SE release is something "good", whatever that means -- I know, something I will want to listen to over and over -- not just listen to once and say, "oh, they're doing that". All I know is that it's probably not going to be a record that makes a "big statement" because those are usually left for DA or TST releases -- or there might be a switcheroo and it will be some sort of "concept album". If we got on that subject, we could be here all day coming up with ideas.
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| Thread: Church - A Love Hate Relationship |
voxrob
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Well, yeah, I have felt that way more times than I can count -- and many times coming to the point of thinking (and occasionally saying) "why bother". Finding a church where one can "get fed" or thinks is "right on" (i.e., they agree with my interpretations) or where the people are "real" can be a never-ending cycle of disaster that completely feeds our own self-centeredness and pride that attempts to evaluate others (and, at worst, judge them). Real Church is a place where one can go to become united with Christ. And as is the case with the Christian world, when one is united with Christ, one is also united with everyone else who is united with Christ. Maybe our neighbors and brothers and sisters are lacking in some ways because we have not done enough ourselves to help. This is what great saints have generally believed -- they are not only guilty of sins that they've committed but they feel they are also guilty of the sins of people around them -- like Christ, they take on those sins as if it were their own. And maybe we would all be better off doing the same.
If one wants to get "fed", this is the time of year to do it. It's Great Lent, try to find a copy of the Great Canon of St Andrew and pray -- don't read -- that. It's a good attitude adjuster which is probably why I was doing better last week than this.
Regards,
Rob Stevenson
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| Thread: Surfonic Water Revival |
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I have a lower-budget version of this idea -- but it depends on what is already available.
Terry might have taped demos of these songs which were then sent to the performers. Collect those demos and release that. I'm not saying have Terry re-record these acoustically -- I mean, whatever was there, never intending it to be released -- those I would be interested in hearing.
I'll bet Terry and the Audioris are just so pleased by the vast number of really GREAT ideas we have for future releases!! I'm sure they are still dumb-founded by the helpfulness of us all!
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| Thread: New Releases... 2004 |
voxrob
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Somebody brought up these boots in a previous post and, frankly, depending on exactly who owns what, a series of "Dicks Picks" for DA might work -- concert tapes, with minimal audio work done to them (partly for cost, partly because, quite frankly, some engineers are over-aggressive in cleaning things up) -- maybe the series can be called "DAs Boot". As a money making release, this probably has the least over-head and can be done relatively easily. If everyone is lucky, there might be like 20 or 30 concert recordings floating around.
The concerts don't have to be great -- maybe reserve the really really good ones for special releases, but for some of these others recorded on cassette -- why not release them in a nice, simple, tasteful CD envelope -- and there's the release. No playing around with iDVD, no going through volumes of material to figure out what outtakes of HD, MotorCycle, whatever can be included. Concerts are short enough that the entire thing can be included and it is a self-encompassing whole that doesn't need alot of comment. The point is not to take a number of tapes and try to create a great DA concert circa 1982 -- these releases are for the fans and completists, so the extra work done for "Preachers from Outer Space" can be bypassed.
Now, quality will vary. Not only in how it was recorded but in the acoustics of the venue. There was a DA concert in So Cal in 1993, I think, that was in a building in an industrial park and the acoustics were perfectly hideous. But y'know, the people that weren't there probably would like to hear the concert -- especially since that would be a very full CD of music. Of course, the question is, how many of these events were taped?
Oh, BTW, if this plan ever comes about and some early DA tapes are released back when Christian artists were obligated to speak and explain the songs and evangelize -- could you set up the cuts on the CD so that a listener can optionally program around the speaking portions after they hear them for the first time? I've heard one of these old concerts and it's really amazing how much Terry is actually talking to the audience. Thanks.
Rob
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| Thread: New Releases... 2004 |
voxrob
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>>"Terry keeps mentioning wanting to do a box set at some point,
so we don't want to put anything out he wants to use for that."
After some thought, it seems to me that this has to be ironed out first. The decision for this box set seriously impacts the HD Sessions and Jubal releases, at minimum. If the very best stuff from HD Sessions is put in the box (and not included on Sessions), then, what happens if the box never comes out (a possibility since this idea has been toyed with for, like, 6 or 7 years?)? Dare I say it? -- maybe the box set has to come first.
How much of the vision for the box set has been fleshed out? Other artists have put out collections that varied widely -- Dylan has two different boxes which differ from the way that Springsteen did his, which differs from the way Pet Sounds Sessions was done, which differs from the way the Beatles avoided the whole box altogether by releasing 3 2-CD sets. Have you folks considered doing a "box" in the form of a book-set since it has a smaller form and perhaps a lower price than a full-blown box that always tends to be oddly shaped anyway (it seems that some releases that used to come in boxes now are in a CD package that fits in the display better -- I assume this form is cheaper than the box configuration)?
I'm not sure how much Terry has mapped out these historical releases, but the box set could also be a way for fans to get a sense of what some future historical releases might hold. So, for instance, a couple of the Jubal-era tracks might be in the box and so when the full CD of Jubal tracks is released, the listeners can determine just how much they liked the taste they got from the box set. It could be that the box set reveals alot of interest that had not been anticipated.
I know that a major gating item for such a project is financing, but just how ambitious is this plan -- how many CDs, how big the book? A 3-CD book set has already been done -- is this project bigger than that?
I know that this is getting off the subject (because it's not on the 2004 map) but the thought did cross my mind.
Rob
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| Thread: New Releases... 2004 |
voxrob
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These are in order of preference:
- Previously mentioned "Horrendous Disc Sessions" collection:
Naturally, this is my first choice. And for this project, I think it's okay to be maximalist -- if DA has permission to do so, include the HD recordings from Maranatha. However, more than any other CD, I think this project really needs good liner notes because of the myth and rumor of the album and the unusual chronology of that era of DA. And when I ask for liner notes, I'm not talking about more light on the DA/Larry squabble, but what happened and how concerning the music. For instance, the whole thing about the 10-track version of HD and what was the song organization DA wanted on the album? Maybe we can put it this way: the liner notes will be the last word from DA about the album.
- Jubal's Last Band Recordings (Live material and demos from the pre-DA period):
This would be interesting, even given the quality of 30 year old cassettes.
- The Making of Mr Buechner's Dream DVD
As another poster mentioned, the problem with DVDs is they don't get played much in my house either. Certainly it would be interesting but I'm not sure if I would like you all to be putting that effort into a DVD project rather than a CD project. This one is a tough call because what might be okay to watch may not be so okay to merely listen to blindly (as a conventional CD). Part of me would like to see a MBD Sessions CD rather than a DVD because a CD is much more likely to be played more often.
- The DA history compilation DVD (1970s-present day):
What in the world goes on here? Is there that much video available from, say, before 1985?
Interesting, but has the same limitations as any DVD release.
Rob
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| Thread: Horrendous Disc advertised!!! |
voxrob
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Good. I'm glad to hear that it's on the radar. That's one set that will require some song commentary because of the checkered history of HD. Would such a set include the non-HD songs that appeared on Shirley, Goodness and Misery -- or is that, yet, another release? Because of HD's long gestation period, that album might produce a more interesting Sessions release than most -- in particular, just how similar or different was HD when they left Maranatha! Music -- how did the vision for that album differ?
Granted, it would be interesting to find out what extra tracks are actually planned by Solid Rock, but you can get a kind of head's up from Terry (or Ed or someone else) about what they recorded for Solid Rock. I have no clue whether it was only like the reported 5 or 6 or as much as a dozen or more songs.
Ultimately though, part of the frustration is that Solid Rock's focus is, understandably, on Larry Norman and I imagine that now that HD and Welcome to Paradise have been released (twice), much of the non-Larry CD-release pressure is off (except for Mark Heard). Even if they sold quite a number of copies of HD, any other DA release is probably going to yield far fewer sales, so their motivation diminishes. It can all serve as an exercise in patience.
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| Thread: Horrendous Disc advertised!!! |
voxrob
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Yeah, I first saw something about these re-masterings in the little catalog he mails out, except it was only talking about "Welcome To Paradise". Although "better" versions are always welcome, I don't know why it wasn't done right the first time. At least in the case of "Welcome To Paradise", I've thought that the transfer to CD was pretty good, so I have a hard time justifying buying it again.
The ad for HD on larrynorman.com is pretty interesting, kind of Larry-centric and a little odd for an advertisement.
I'm not sure what to make of this in looking forward to future releases. I wasn't that excited about what I was hearing a couple of years ago -- a release of the British version of HD (with minimal extras), a box set of Solid Rock that would include the songs DA recorded for Solid Rock (if I'm not mistaken, most of HD was really recorded before DA went to Solid Rock). It seemed like the releases would be slow, with lots of stuff that I wasn't too interested in (I mean, almost all of the Brit version of HD is the same except for another song and maybe some song edits).
What I really wish they would do is just root through their stuff, just put out all the outtakes, those songs recorded, etc., and just be done with it. I don't even mind them being grabby and putting 35 minutes of stuff on each of 3 CDs and selling it all for $50. At least, then, it would be done. As it is now, it gets strung out and the end result sometimes doesn't seem to be too satisfactory.
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| Thread: New release feedback |
voxrob
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A problem with vanity credits on the film is that it delays the final finishing of the film so that all the names can be included. It doesn't make any difference if my name is on it at all.
Pre-orders are fine, just learn from past history:
-- HD CD: When the announcement came out for this, I thought that it was really a pre-order -- not a way of funding the manufacturing. If LN had said that to begin with, that's fine, just let me know.
-- Hodge-podge or whatever: The mistake here was saying the release was going to be on "the 29th day of September, in the year of our Lord two thousand and one" (or whatever) -- that sounded real definite.
-- Preachers from Outer Space: This was delayed because of mastering problems and I appreciated hearing from Tom about what was happening -- it was alot better than hearing nothing.
MBD went real well, I think. Folks were told up front what was happening and a really good album resulted. Naturally, for a video production, the track listing, venue, etc. can be given at the pre-order announcement. Don't be over-aggressive with the release date -- give the best WAG you can at the time.
Frankly, I'm surprised this issue hasn't cropped up before in relation to historical releases (not re-releases, older stuff never released) -- or even the sometimes talked about box set. A sense of the pre-orders would give you folks an idea of the demand for a particular item rather than put together a CD and find out folks aren't that interested. Of course, I'm not sure what the expectation was for MBD -- so maybe the pre-order thing was kind of disappointing. Just depends on what people were expecting.
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