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Woggy
Platyhelminth
Registration Date: 03-13-2002
Posts: 6,079
Location: "Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former." ~~ Albert Einstein
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Originally posted by Democracy's Blind
It will take A LOT of Pride-SwaLLowing for this good ole boy to ever buy that magazine.
and BuLLet-Biting too.
GRRR,
SteaL a Copy!!!
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but, remember to REPENT afterwards!
(yer bad!!) 
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1 John 2:6
Whoever claims to live in him must walk as Jesus did.
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11-19-2003 16:18 |
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Squidzit
Platyhelminth
Registration Date: 05-14-2003
Posts: 6,235
Location: Be the change you wish to see in the world
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"Why a four year old child could understand this...
run out and get me a four year old child, I can't make heads or tails of it."
~Groucho~
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11-19-2003 16:41 |
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Joey T.
Tallowy Tamale
Registration Date: 03-13-2002
Posts: 7,777
Location: you can't fire me, 'cuz i quit! - Kurt Cobain....
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11-19-2003 16:42 |
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Squidzit
Platyhelminth
Registration Date: 05-14-2003
Posts: 6,235
Location: Be the change you wish to see in the world
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__________________
"Why a four year old child could understand this...
run out and get me a four year old child, I can't make heads or tails of it."
~Groucho~
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11-19-2003 16:43 |
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Joey T.
Tallowy Tamale
Registration Date: 03-13-2002
Posts: 7,777
Location: you can't fire me, 'cuz i quit! - Kurt Cobain....
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11-19-2003 16:46 |
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Squidzit
Platyhelminth
Registration Date: 05-14-2003
Posts: 6,235
Location: Be the change you wish to see in the world
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__________________
"Why a four year old child could understand this...
run out and get me a four year old child, I can't make heads or tails of it."
~Groucho~
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11-19-2003 16:49 |
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Joey T.
Tallowy Tamale
Registration Date: 03-13-2002
Posts: 7,777
Location: you can't fire me, 'cuz i quit! - Kurt Cobain....
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11-19-2003 16:51 |
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Squidzit
Platyhelminth
Registration Date: 05-14-2003
Posts: 6,235
Location: Be the change you wish to see in the world
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"Why a four year old child could understand this...
run out and get me a four year old child, I can't make heads or tails of it."
~Groucho~
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11-19-2003 16:52 |
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Joey T.
Tallowy Tamale
Registration Date: 03-13-2002
Posts: 7,777
Location: you can't fire me, 'cuz i quit! - Kurt Cobain....
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11-19-2003 16:55 |
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You Gotta Be There
unregistered
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I have my beefs about CCM Magazine, the commercialism and shallowness; but still, there is a lot of good in the magazine too. I haven't bought an issue in a long time; but it does look like December 2003 is one that I will be picking up.
I don't understand people here who say that they hate CCM music. Taylor's music is Christian and its contemporary; and there's nothing wrong with that. Many/most of the great hymns were once contemporary as well as Christain.
What I think people really mean to say is that they don't like music that sounds like it came out of a factory. Plenty in CCM are guilty of that; and plenty in the secular market are guilty of that, too.
What, I believe, we mean to say, is that whether the music is by a Christian or not, we like the music to be a genuine and honest expression, rather than some kind of commercial formula.
Thankfully, Taylor's projects are true art that cannot be labeled as factory music; and they usually push the artistic envelope both lyrically and musically.
I'm looking forward to the CCM issue and what they have to say. I wonder if there will be an extensive interview with Terry Taylor for it? Seems like there should be.
ygbt
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11-19-2003 21:50 |
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freak 
Ceremonial Kernel
Registration Date: 11-13-2003
Posts: 1,171
Location: memory lane
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I understand that music is Christian and Contemporary... and I like music that is Christian and at one time was Contemporary (ccm)... I enjoy much music that is Christian...
But CCM is also an industry - and as an industry... this machine is attempting to forecast new trends and dress up dolls and boys (just check out Michael W. Smith from his first Album to Go West Young Man - pretty drastic change) to capture the attention of the youth and capture the newly married, and many other niche markets. The industry uses the term Christian - but they might as well be Epic Records or any other... it is one more case where Christendom has mirrored the world... rather than built a music ministry that mirrors the values of the Kingdom. What comes out (in most cases) is anything but authentic - instead we get plastic smiles; cliche' lyrics; and something that sounds like everything else on the radio - if smashmouth is popular on the "secular" radio - then the CCM industry has to churn out a "christian - sanitized smashmouth like band... to ride the smashmouth trend - so rather than allowing bands to create their own sound - the industry it appears to me reacts to what is happening in the world - rather than be out on the edge and creating new sounds, approaches and what I consider authentic music... The exceptions are so obvious - Delirious hits out of no where and on their own merit - little marketing, etc. are an overnight phenomenon; Burlap to Cashmere, Chevelle, Jars of Clay... each of these bands when they emerged - were the genuine result of Christian people creating their own sound - untouched by the machine of CCM... and the results were so refreshing (there are many good people with good intentions in CCM - I am sure - from artists to producers to front office types - but in my estimation the philosophical ideaologies are flawed).
That is what is so refreshing about a DA - they have been in, but not of CCM - they have remained unique; authentic; real and extremely creative. They do represent what could be in music that reflects our faith...
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dit, dit, doo
This post has been edited 1 time(s), it was last edited by freak: 11-20-2003 06:41.
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11-20-2003 06:16 |
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PuP
Moderator
Registration Date: 07-09-2003
Posts: 11,774
Location: The DAmb Home for Wayward Sons and Fragile Daughters
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| quote: |
Originally posted by freak
they have been in, but not of CCM |
Well-spoken! The whole post was good, but I especially liked this point. 
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"At times this board is a place of thought provoking discussions, but most often it resembles a not quite done Mexican taco." - Jevon the Tall
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11-20-2003 07:07 |
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Squidzit
Platyhelminth
Registration Date: 05-14-2003
Posts: 6,235
Location: Be the change you wish to see in the world
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| quote: |
Originally posted by freak
I understand that music is Christian and Contemporary... and I like music that is Christian and at one time was Contemporary (ccm)... I enjoy much music that is Christian...
But CCM is also an industry - and as an industry... this machine is attempting to forecast new trends and dress up dolls and boys (just check out Michael W. Smith from his first Album to Go West Young Man - pretty drastic change) to capture the attention of the youth and capture the newly married, and many other niche markets. The industry uses the term Christian - but they might as well be Epic Records or any other... it is one more case where Christendom has mirrored the world... rather than built a music ministry that mirrors the values of the Kingdom. What comes out (in most cases) is anything but authentic - instead we get plastic smiles; cliche' lyrics; and something that sounds like everything else on the radio - if smashmouth is popular on the "secular" radio - then the CCM industry has to churn out a "christian - sanitized smashmouth like band... to ride the smashmouth trend - so rather than allowing bands to create their own sound - the industry it appears to me reacts to what is happening in the world - rather than be out on the edge and creating new sounds, approaches and what I consider authentic music... The exceptions are so obvious - Delirious hits out of no where and on their own merit - little marketing, etc. are an overnight phenomenon; Burlap to Cashmere, Chevelle, Jars of Clay... each of these bands when they emerged - were the genuine result of Christian people creating their own sound - untouched by the machine of CCM... and the results were so refreshing (there are many good people with good intentions in CCM - I am sure - from artists to producers to front office types - but in my estimation the philosophical ideaologies are flawed). |
Actually, you could substitute "churches" for "CCM" in most of this. This sounds to me, for the most part, like what some churches do.
| quote: |
Originally posted by freak
That is what is so refreshing about a DA - they have been in, but not of CCM - they have remained unique; authentic; real and extremely creative. They do represent what could be in music that reflects our faith... |
Da is creative because they have talent. I don't know if you're a musician, but writting a song is not an easy task. Even a bad one. And recording for BD's More Negative Fruit album showed me how hard it is to record a song and get it to sound 1/2 decent. Although I don't like the sound that most "CCM" bands produce, I can't bash them too bad if I can't do better. They have a place in this world, just like big mega churches and small store front churches. And I know lots of people think that "CCM" is just for the mindless masses, but if not for "CCM", what would they listen to? Britney?
__________________
"Why a four year old child could understand this...
run out and get me a four year old child, I can't make heads or tails of it."
~Groucho~
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11-20-2003 08:06 |
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HEMISPHERICALHEADS
Ceremonial Kernel
Registration Date: 06-07-2003
Posts: 2,324
Location: Motor City
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| quote: |
Originally posted by freak
I understand that music is Christian and Contemporary... and I like music that is Christian and at one time was Contemporary (ccm)... I enjoy much music that is Christian...
But CCM is also an industry - and as an industry... this machine is attempting to forecast new trends and dress up dolls and boys (just check out Michael W. Smith from his first Album to Go West Young Man - pretty drastic change) to capture the attention of the youth and capture the newly married, and many other niche markets. The industry uses the term Christian - but they might as well be Epic Records or any other... it is one more case where Christendom has mirrored the world... rather than built a music ministry that mirrors the values of the Kingdom. What comes out (in most cases) is anything but authentic - instead we get plastic smiles; cliche' lyrics; and something that sounds like everything else on the radio - if smashmouth is popular on the "secular" radio - then the CCM industry has to churn out a "christian - sanitized smashmouth like band... to ride the smashmouth trend - so rather than allowing bands to create their own sound - the industry it appears to me reacts to what is happening in the world - rather than be out on the edge and creating new sounds, approaches and what I consider authentic music... The exceptions are so obvious - Delirious hits out of no where and on their own merit - little marketing, etc. are an overnight phenomenon; Burlap to Cashmere, Chevelle, Jars of Clay... each of these bands when they emerged - were the genuine result of Christian people creating their own sound - untouched by the machine of CCM... and the results were so refreshing (there are many good people with good intentions in CCM - I am sure - from artists to producers to front office types - but in my estimation the philosophical ideaologies are flawed).
That is what is so refreshing about a DA - they have been in, but not of CCM - they have remained unique; authentic; real and extremely creative. They do represent what could be in music that reflects our faith... |
Good responses FREAK..
I agree..Good music is supposed to be art..Most CCM is not art.Most secular is not art..People in this postmodern society don't understand what good art is. They think Brittney running around showing us her jewels is artistic? People are very shallow in these days..There is not a whole lot of depth in anything anymore. Rather than reading Ravi Zacharias or C.S. Lewis we would rather read the "left Behind Series" and consider it masterpiece.
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11-21-2003 07:42 |
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freak
Ceremonial Kernel
Registration Date: 11-13-2003
Posts: 1,171
Location: memory lane
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| quote: |
Originally posted by HEMISPHERICALHEADS
| quote: |
Originally posted by freak
I understand that music is Christian and Contemporary... and I like music that is Christian and at one time was Contemporary (ccm)... I enjoy much music that is Christian...
But CCM is also an industry - and as an industry... this machine is attempting to forecast new trends and dress up dolls and boys (just check out Michael W. Smith from his first Album to Go West Young Man - pretty drastic change) to capture the attention of the youth and capture the newly married, and many other niche markets. The industry uses the term Christian - but they might as well be Epic Records or any other... it is one more case where Christendom has mirrored the world... rather than built a music ministry that mirrors the values of the Kingdom. What comes out (in most cases) is anything but authentic - instead we get plastic smiles; cliche' lyrics; and something that sounds like everything else on the radio - if smashmouth is popular on the "secular" radio - then the CCM industry has to churn out a "christian - sanitized smashmouth like band... to ride the smashmouth trend - so rather than allowing bands to create their own sound - the industry it appears to me reacts to what is happening in the world - rather than be out on the edge and creating new sounds, approaches and what I consider authentic music... The exceptions are so obvious - Delirious hits out of no where and on their own merit - little marketing, etc. are an overnight phenomenon; Burlap to Cashmere, Chevelle, Jars of Clay... each of these bands when they emerged - were the genuine result of Christian people creating their own sound - untouched by the machine of CCM... and the results were so refreshing (there are many good people with good intentions in CCM - I am sure - from artists to producers to front office types - but in my estimation the philosophical ideaologies are flawed).
That is what is so refreshing about a DA - they have been in, but not of CCM - they have remained unique; authentic; real and extremely creative. They do represent what could be in music that reflects our faith... |
Good responses FREAK..
I agree..Good music is supposed to be art..Most CCM is not art.Most secular is not art..People in this postmodern society don't understand what good art is. They think Brittney running around showing us her jewels is artistic? People are very shallow in these days..There is not a whole lot of depth in anything anymore. Rather than reading Ravi Zacharias or C.S. Lewis we would rather read the "left Behind Series" and consider it masterpiece. |
Hemisphere... yeah much of what is passed on as artistic (these people our society refers to as musical artists!?) is massproduce; assembly line formulaic mind swiss vanilla booboo that is low on substance and is far from art... but when our culture does produce art; for those who recognize it that is a good thing, it is a good and lovely thing - I try to dwell on those jewels - rather than Brittney's or Victoria Secrets.
Have you heard of the new book, "My Left Behind..." 
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dit, dit, doo
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11-21-2003 08:30 |
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dorfsmith
Grand Encephalon
Registration Date: 03-24-2002
Posts: 28,142
Location: Everybody needs a persicom
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The CCM arguement is getting old. Lets just say that I hate an industry that sells Christ. I like music that many Christian musicians make.
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http://www.google.com
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11-20-2003 22:41 |
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PuP
Moderator
Registration Date: 07-09-2003
Posts: 11,774
Location: The DAmb Home for Wayward Sons and Fragile Daughters
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| quote: |
Originally posted by dorfsmith
The CCM arguement is getting old. Lets just say that I hate an industry that sells Christ. I like music that many Christian musicians make. |
I can agree with this statement.
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"At times this board is a place of thought provoking discussions, but most often it resembles a not quite done Mexican taco." - Jevon the Tall
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11-21-2003 07:33 |
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jwaltb
Mind Peach
Registration Date: 04-23-2002
Posts: 167
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I subscribed to CCM for a long time way back when. They actually were pretty good at one time in my opinion, but their focus seemed to be going more and more mainstream commercial so I quit reading a few years back. One thing that's sure..... it's good to hear it's now being run by someone with this guy's background. It'll be worth watching anyway. And as for this article - I see it as all good! Congratulations, Daniel Amos and all related!!! You guys definitely deserve it and I hope it opens many a door. Maybe even prompt a new album in the months ahead????? I could handle that.
JB
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11-21-2003 06:41 |
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Squidzit
Platyhelminth
Registration Date: 05-14-2003
Posts: 6,235
Location: Be the change you wish to see in the world
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Good music is supposed to be enjoyed. As long as someone is doing that, the artist has done their job. Not matter the reason they like the music. You better believe a lot of people think DA is just a rip off band. I read an article in Rolling Stone once comparing every style that Terry went through to some other band. They completely dismissed him! So do we think he's great still? I do!! 
__________________
"Why a four year old child could understand this...
run out and get me a four year old child, I can't make heads or tails of it."
~Groucho~
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11-21-2003 08:03 |
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jiminy
Tallowy Tamale
Registration Date: 11-16-2002
Posts: 9,494
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if smashmouth is popular on the "secular" radio - then the CCM industry has to churn out a "christian - sanitized smashmouth like band... to ride the smashmouth trend -
TOTALLY agree-
but let me offer an interesting perspective-
When I was in MSR (Maximum Security religion) all through the 80s..a long tale..
I listened exclusivly to CCM - I STILL am "catching up" with some of the great music I missed (c'm on now , there was some...)-
I never bought CCM music back then thinking- "they sound like"-
though now looking back I hear the Springsteen in Stonehills "Wild Frontier"
or the Police/Elvis Costello sounds in the early 77s.
I didnt know the Choir was sounding like the Cure- I didnt listen to the Cure. (I do now baby-..)
But I think that artists influence artists-
(Stryper/Foriegner..hello???)
the reason DA did a Talking Heads tune at CS84 is simple- TH was the bomb -
so to "borrow" a style is done everywhere- thats why you had 19 boy bands 2 years ago- and none today.
I Agree that Christian Music tends to offer "sanitized" versions of whats popular- but to a portion of their unsuspecting audience- they just may think its new and fresh.
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jiMinY
theres nothing to EVER put here that will please everyone-let alone anyone.
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11-21-2003 08:08 |
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RE: CCM or ccm