 raised listening to DA... |
dorfsmith 
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Originally posted by Audiori J
Well....I mean if they were " walking around handing out burned copies of songs that they just recorded in their bedroom studio to people on the street." They basically would have to quit, they can't support their family working on songs to give away.
Terry does at least sell enough to pay for his releases, and hopefully at times support his family. There are extrenuating circmstances now and then that hurt that system. I think Mike Roe has talked about on his board about the whole VIA situation as an example.
Under normal circumstances these guys wouldnt' be doing too bad I think, but their circumstances over the years have not always been normal. And when you've had multiple unfortunate events over a period of years, its sometmes hard to get back to normal.
I also believe when someone is used by God to touch the lives of a lot of people as these guys have through song, they have more than just the industry working against them. I think the industry is at fault for part of their following to lose track of them, but beyond that I think these guys can be and most likely are under 'spiritual attack.' That can come in the form of financial issues, when the finances are needed to continue.
The guys need support and prayer. |
I know what you mean. I was just having fun. My main point is that I would be thrilled if the giant industry that only markets what will sell crashed. The art world would be better off for it too.
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05-18-2005 14:34 |
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nomadmike
Unsullied Affiche
Registration Date: 05-17-2005
Posts: 39
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Hi guys, I'm new here but have been a DA fan since the late 70's. I worked as a Christian musician from 1977 to 1989 when life/wife forced me to get a real day job. In all of those years many of us dreamed of crossing over without selling out, to play our music, touch lives outside of the church and make a modest living doing it. Well fulltime music didn't happen for my boys and me but some of our friends made it and for them I'm really happy. I'm also excited about some groups that are crossing over like Relient K, Pillar and Switchfoot; and I didn't have to drive to the local Christian bookstore to buy them but just hop on into the local Target. Now that's pretty cool to this old guy and I'm glad to see someone fulfilling our dream.
I had been in the music biz long enough to realize that it's a business and art has little to do with it. I never figured out how to make music that sold, (commercial) and I've watched those better at it then me not make it either. If I had my druthers the Good Rats would have been mega stars and the NY Dolls would be up there touring like the Rolling Stones and KISS on their umpteenth farewell tour. Instead I watched Peter Frampton and David Lee Roth play gigs at the local office park. The reality is most everybody loses their audience after awhile. At least now there is self publishing for us fans.
Sadly the Christian music scene has never been pretty and I think harder to navigate than the secular one.
Time for this old fart to stop rambling and go to bed.
BTW I think MBD is the best album set that I own. The band is awesome and Terry is one of the best writers out there, period. I also cherish the two times I got to see DA in the dual drummer days, hang with the guys a little at Kamperland and even play on the same stage as my heros did.
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05-18-2005 21:38 |
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Dr Rich
Ubique Epoque
Registration Date: 03-15-2002
Posts: 9,986
Location: Hoverkrafti im është plot me ngjala.
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| quote: |
Originally posted by nomadmike
Hi guys, I'm new here but have been a DA fan since the late 70's. I worked as a Christian musician from 1977 to 1989 when life/wife forced me to get a real day job. In all of those years many of us dreamed of crossing over without selling out, to play our music, touch lives outside of the church and make a modest living doing it. Well fulltime music didn't happen for my boys and me but some of our friends made it and for them I'm really happy. I'm also excited about some groups that are crossing over like Relient K, Pillar and Switchfoot; and I didn't have to drive to the local Christian bookstore to buy them but just hop on into the local Target. Now that's pretty cool to this old guy and I'm glad to see someone fulfilling our dream.
I had been in the music biz long enough to realize that it's a business and art has little to do with it. I never figured out how to make music that sold, (commercial) and I've watched those better at it then me not make it either. If I had my druthers the Good Rats would have been mega stars and the NY Dolls would be up there touring like the Rolling Stones and KISS on their umpteenth farewell tour. Instead I watched Peter Frampton and David Lee Roth play gigs at the local office park. The reality is most everybody loses their audience after awhile. At least now there is self publishing for us fans.
Sadly the Christian music scene has never been pretty and I think harder to navigate than the secular one.
Time for this old fart to stop rambling and go to bed.
BTW I think MBD is the best album set that I own. The band is awesome and Terry is one of the best writers out there, period. I also cherish the two times I got to see DA in the dual drummer days, hang with the guys a little at Kamperland and even play on the same stage as my heros did. |
Thanks! Great thoughts into this post. I hope you stick around & post more! 
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05-18-2005 21:48 |
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dorfsmith
Grand Encephalon
Registration Date: 03-24-2002
Posts: 28,142
Location: Everybody needs a persicom
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| quote: |
Originally posted by nomadmike
Hi guys, I'm new here but have been a DA fan since the late 70's. I worked as a Christian musician from 1977 to 1989 when life/wife forced me to get a real day job. In all of those years many of us dreamed of crossing over without selling out, to play our music, touch lives outside of the church and make a modest living doing it. Well fulltime music didn't happen for my boys and me but some of our friends made it and for them I'm really happy. I'm also excited about some groups that are crossing over like Relient K, Pillar and Switchfoot; and I didn't have to drive to the local Christian bookstore to buy them but just hop on into the local Target. Now that's pretty cool to this old guy and I'm glad to see someone fulfilling our dream.
I had been in the music biz long enough to realize that it's a business and art has little to do with it. I never figured out how to make music that sold, (commercial) and I've watched those better at it then me not make it either. If I had my druthers the Good Rats would have been mega stars and the NY Dolls would be up there touring like the Rolling Stones and KISS on their umpteenth farewell tour. Instead I watched Peter Frampton and David Lee Roth play gigs at the local office park. The reality is most everybody loses their audience after awhile. At least now there is self publishing for us fans.
Sadly the Christian music scene has never been pretty and I think harder to navigate than the secular one.
Time for this old fart to stop rambling and go to bed.
BTW I think MBD is the best album set that I own. The band is awesome and Terry is one of the best writers out there, period. I also cherish the two times I got to see DA in the dual drummer days, hang with the guys a little at Kamperland and even play on the same stage as my heros did. |
Hi and welcome
I like the fact that a lot of Christians are being accepted into the secular market. I always thought music should be music and that if at all possible Christians should be out there in the real world 
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05-18-2005 21:57 |
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Jerry Davison
Woolly Eggwhisk
Registration Date: 03-30-2005
Posts: 846
Location: Atlanta, GA
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| quote: |
Originally posted by Dr Rich
| quote: |
Originally posted by Audiori J
Well, I disagree. I think in some cases those would be the guys
who want to feed their families. |
I had the same thought. (Sorry Dorf.) |
I live that thought! Also sorry dorfster.
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05-19-2005 02:11 |
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dorfsmith
Grand Encephalon
Registration Date: 03-24-2002
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Hey, (no offence to any of you) but none of you were the big time big bucks rock stars and you are all much better off because of it 
IMHO
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05-19-2005 10:08 |
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suttung
Dark Steamy Cabbage
Registration Date: 05-18-2005
Posts: 18
Location: South Carolina
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| quote: |
Originally posted by nomadmike
Hi guys, I'm new here but have been a DA fan since the late 70's. I worked as a Christian musician from 1977 to 1989 when life/wife forced me to get a real day job. In all of those years many of us dreamed of crossing over without selling out, to play our music, touch lives outside of the church and make a modest living doing it. Well fulltime music didn't happen for my boys and me but some of our friends made it and for them I'm really happy. |
What band were you in?
Just curious!
Rob Jones
PS. My favorite current band is DISCIPLE
http://www.disciplerocks.com
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05-19-2005 10:20 |
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mike
Woolly Eggwhisk
Registration Date: 03-15-2004
Posts: 774
Location: New Orleans
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I find it interesting that those musicians that claim to want to spread
the gospel as their main goal sell their material. I am glad Jesus
didn't do that. What must I do to be saved? Well you need to buy
this book, CD, etc..... We have adopted the worlds methods in
distribution.
Why does a "minister" expect that they must make a living from
their ministry? Paul had a job when the going got rough.
Most christian artists would jump at the chance to make it
into the "real world". Music radio is not targeted to challenge people.
Why would a radio programer play music that goes against
the philosophy of the station and the most important thing
the advertisors?
If you have not noticed the world hates the gospel message. It is
offensive. Why would some one want to hear an offensive message
when they are trying to listen to music that reinforces their beliefs?
Christian artists are dying to cross over and will justify it any when
they can. Jaci valaquez had pastoral couneling before she appeared
in lingerie in a movie and the pastor said it was ok.
But I could not imagine Paul doing that just the "infiltrate" the world,
maybe Dorf but not Paul.
We are "Fools of The World".
m
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05-19-2005 10:36 |
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dorfsmith
Grand Encephalon
Registration Date: 03-24-2002
Posts: 28,142
Location: Everybody needs a persicom
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| quote: |
Originally posted by mike
I find it interesting that those musicians that claim to want to spread
the gospel as their main goal sell their material. I am glad Jesus
didn't do that. What must I do to be saved? Well you need to buy
this book, CD, etc..... We have adopted the worlds methods in
distribution.
Why does a "minister" expect that they must make a living from
their ministry? Paul had a job when the going got rough.
Most christian artists would jump at the chance to make it
into the "real world". Music radio is not targeted to challenge people.
Why would a radio programer play music that goes against
the philosophy of the station and the most important thing
the advertisors?
If you have not noticed the world hates the gospel message. It is
offensive. Why would some one want to hear an offensive message
when they are trying to listen to music that reinforces their beliefs?
Christian artists are dying to cross over and will justify it any when
they can. Jaci valaquez had pastoral couneling before she appeared
in lingerie in a movie and the pastor said it was ok.
But I could not envisage Paul doing that just the "infiltrate" the world,
maybe Dorf but not Paul.
We are "Fools of The World".
m |
Ahhh, but I was talking about art not the gospel. I think music should be music. If it has a christian message great if not cool but the main thing I hate is the "Christian" industry. I hate it when people slap Jesus on something and try to sell it. Knowing you Mike, I think we agree completely I just did a really bad job saying what I meant
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05-19-2005 10:40 |
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dorfsmith
Grand Encephalon
Registration Date: 03-24-2002
Posts: 28,142
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| quote: |
Originally posted by mike
Christian artists are dying to cross over and will justify it any when
they can. Jaci valaquez had pastoral couneling before she appeared
in lingerie in a movie and the pastor said it was ok.
m |
IMHO Jaci's gift would be modeling...not music
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05-19-2005 10:41 |
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nomadmike
Unsullied Affiche
Registration Date: 05-17-2005
Posts: 39
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Thanks all. This is a thread that just hits home for me. I'm one of those that lost touch with my favorite bands and figured them as long gone. What a nice surprise to see them still around.
Two ways for a band to lose audience is by playing the same old stuff over and over, and the other is by making changes. I lost track of DA after one change where they went left my musical tastes went right and the rest is history. The same thing happened to me with U2 and Van Halen. I'm back into U2 and DA but I still hate Van Hagar.
I loved the old days of the movement but I'm so glad they passed as any movement gets restrictive after awhile. I think being so focused on the message helped stifle people from being able to write about things that could hook those they were trying to reach. There was a lot of preaching at, but not a lot of relating to the people we were trying to reach. There was a disconnect between what we were singing about on stage and what was going on in our daily warts and all lives.
We can blame some impersonel industry for all our woes, but I think much of the fault lies with the performers losing relevence to their chosen audience.
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05-19-2005 10:41 |
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dorfsmith
Grand Encephalon
Registration Date: 03-24-2002
Posts: 28,142
Location: Everybody needs a persicom
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| quote: |
Originally posted by mike
I find it interesting that those musicians that claim to want to spread
the gospel as their main goal sell their material. I am glad Jesus
didn't do that. What must I do to be saved? Well you need to buy
this book, CD, etc..... We have adopted the worlds methods in
distribution.
m |
Preach it my friend. Out of your whole post I agree with this the most
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05-19-2005 10:42 |
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dorfsmith
Grand Encephalon
Registration Date: 03-24-2002
Posts: 28,142
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| quote: |
Originally posted by nomadmike
Thanks all. This is a thread that just hits home for me. I'm one of those that lost touch with my favorite bands and figured them as long gone. What a nice surprise to see them still around.
Two ways for a band to lose audience is by playing the same old stuff over and over, and the other is by making changes. I lost track of DA after one change where they went left my musical tastes went right and the rest is history. The same thing happened to me with U2 and Van Halen. I'm back into U2 and DA but I still hate Van Hagar.
I loved the old days of the movement but I'm so glad they passed as any movement gets restrictive after awhile. I think being so focused on the message helped stifle people from being able to write about things that could hook those they were trying to reach. There was a lot of preaching at, but not a lot of relating to the people we were trying to reach. There was a disconnect between what we were singing about on stage and what was going on in our daily warts and all lives.
We can blame some impersonel industry for all our woes, but I think much of the fault lies with the performers losing relevence to their chosen audience. |
I agree...Christians go through crap too and should be able to sing about it. That's why Mike Knott is my hero
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05-19-2005 10:44 |
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nomadmike
Unsullied Affiche
Registration Date: 05-17-2005
Posts: 39
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| quote: |
Most christian artists would jump at the chance to make it
into the "real world". Music radio is not targeted to challenge people.
Why would a radio programer play music that goes against
the philosophy of the station and the most important thing
the advertisors? |
P.O.D. did it twice and Relient K is touring with Good Charlotte. Radio isn't about philosophy but selling air time to advertisers. Advertisers are about getting your backside into their store to buy their product. Don't Christians drive cars that breakdown or need a tuneup? Go out to eat. Buy clothes? What is it about CM that goes against the advertiser? Who is more anti-advertiser POD, or System of a Down and Rage Against the Machine?
Dorf Christians do go through crap too but if we sing about it we try to resolve it by the end of the song by having Jesus come out of the clouds and make it better. 
We have a problem with admitting we have doubts and fears and I think that keeps us seperate from others.
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05-19-2005 11:10 |
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mike
Woolly Eggwhisk
Registration Date: 03-15-2004
Posts: 774
Location: New Orleans
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| quote: |
Originally posted by nomadmike
Don't Christians drive cars that breakdown or need a tuneup? Go out to eat. Buy clothes? What is it about CM that goes against the advertiser? Who is more anti-advertiser POD, or System of a Down and Rage Against the Machine?
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IMO Rage's message is mute due to the fact that the are on a major label.
Yes, Christians car's break down, and maybe if you live in the middle
of nowhere that is the types of ads that you hear on the radio
are for grocery stores, etc. Here where I live there are very few
ads like that on rock stations, it is 80 percent, Thong Thursday at
this bar, 3 for one drinks here. That does not go well with
the message of most "christian" music.
m
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05-19-2005 11:23 |
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dorfsmith
Grand Encephalon
Registration Date: 03-24-2002
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| quote: |
Originally posted by nomadmike
[quote]
Dorf Christians do go through crap too but if we sing about it we try to resolve it by the end of the song by having Jesus come out of the clouds and make it better.
We have a problem with admitting we have doubts and fears and I think that keeps us seperate from others. |
My point exactly
)
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05-19-2005 11:50 |
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mike
Woolly Eggwhisk
Registration Date: 03-15-2004
Posts: 774
Location: New Orleans
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| quote: |
Originally posted by Dr Rich
| quote: |
Originally posted by mike
| quote: |
Originally posted by nomadmike
Don't Christians drive cars that breakdown or need a tuneup? Go out to eat. Buy clothes? What is it about CM that goes against the advertiser? Who is more anti-advertiser POD, or System of a Down and Rage Against the Machine?
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IMO Rage's message is mute due to the fact that the are on a major label.
m |
You lost me on that one. So Bob Dylan's message is mute? POD is on a major label. So is System of a Down.
They were on a major label, so what? Does that mean they were Britney Spears? 
Here is something I found in the subject.
| quote: |
Tom Morello provides this rebuttal to that criticism:
A lot of labels contacted us, and lots of them just didn't seem to understand what we wanted to do. They kept talking about the message of the music as a gimmick. They were interested in us just because there was a buzz... They saw us as the latest local rock band to be hyped. But Epic agreed to everything we asked--and they've followed through... we never saw a conflict as long as we maintained creative control. When you live in a capitalistic society, the currency of the dissemination of information goes through capitalistic channels. Would Noam Chomsky object to his works being sold at Barnes & Noble? No, because that's where people buy their books. We're not interested in preaching to just the converted. It's great to play abandoned squats run by anarchists, but it's also great to be able to reach people with a revolutionary message, people from Granada Hills to Stuttgart. |
The anti-major label elitism is pretty stupid.
You seem too smart for that. |
I maybe wrong since I am no expert on rage against the machine but I was
under the impression that they, or at least the lead singer expressed
a message of communisum, if that is the case then selling a communist
message seems a little contradictioary.
I am not anti major label, I buy CD's from Pink Floyd, Peter gabriel,
etc. But I don't think their mesage contradicts their distribution
method.
m
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05-19-2005 11:50 |
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nomadmike
Unsullied Affiche
Registration Date: 05-17-2005
Posts: 39
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Mike, Why would being on a major label make them more acceptable? By that logic both Relient K and Switchfoot should also get a free pass for being played. I don't buy into the entire major label argument at all.
Do you think the owner of the local nudie bar cares if a station he advertises on plays Youth of the Nation or Dare You to Move? There's more to life than just the "message", and most of it is common ground with our unwashed friends. I played bars where we played originals but also covers by secular bands. The bar owners didn't care we played a song titled, The Road to Life. It didn't hurt his beer sales or have people run out of the place.
Also why follow the trend of most Christian music? If everybody else is already covering a subject write about something else. No matter what we may think Christians have most of the same issues as those who go to Thong Thursdays. We work deadend jobs, get dumped by girlfriends and worry about the world just like anybody else.
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05-19-2005 11:51 |
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dorfsmith
Grand Encephalon
Registration Date: 03-24-2002
Posts: 28,142
Location: Everybody needs a persicom
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| quote: |
Originally posted by Dr Rich
| quote: |
Originally posted by mike
| quote: |
Originally posted by nomadmike
Don't Christians drive cars that breakdown or need a tuneup? Go out to eat. Buy clothes? What is it about CM that goes against the advertiser? Who is more anti-advertiser POD, or System of a Down and Rage Against the Machine?
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IMO Rage's message is mute due to the fact that the are on a major label.
m |
You lost me on that one. So Bob Dylan's message is mute? POD is on a major label. So is System of a Down.
They were on a major label, so what? Does that mean they were Britney Spears?
Here is something I found in the subject.
| quote: |
Tom Morello provides this rebuttal to that criticism:
A lot of labels contacted us, and lots of them just didn't seem to understand what we wanted to do. They kept talking about the message of the music as a gimmick. They were interested in us just because there was a buzz... They saw us as the latest local rock band to be hyped. But Epic agreed to everything we asked--and they've followed through... we never saw a conflict as long as we maintained creative control. When you live in a capitalistic society, the currency of the dissemination of information goes through capitalistic channels. Would Noam Chomsky object to his works being sold at Barnes & Noble? No, because that's where people buy their books. We're not interested in preaching to just the converted. It's great to play abandoned squats run by anarchists, but it's also great to be able to reach people with a revolutionary message, people from Granada Hills to Stuttgart. |
The anti-major label elitism is pretty stupid.
You seem too smart for that. |
Well, I believe that what Mike is saying about Rage is that they say they are against the machine but they are part of it. It's the same paradox as when Curt Cobain ended up on the cover of Rolling Stone...a magazine he put down for being too commercial.
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05-19-2005 11:52 |
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